Notes mentioned in this episode of The Athletic Development Show:
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All right, welcome to the Athletic Department Show special guest yet again, Pat Wilson here. Hello, everyone. Yeah. So we've just had a big week, a huge week of interviews with interview was a 32 intern candidates. Thirty two and three days. So it's been an absolute madness. Full on. It's the first time you've sat on the other side of the desk. What's what's it been like? What was your overall experience? Yeah, well, I've been on both sides now, having interviewed by yourself and now being the person that's that's running the interviews. It's it's definitely a big contrast. What was it like when you were being interviewed? What what was that? What's your recollection of that? I was four or five years ago now, very I liked probably confidence back then. It meant a lot to me being here already. So it was very high pressure. And yeah, I thought I was a nervous wreck. You seemed to think I did OK. Yeah, I left that thinking it was absolutely. Yeah, I thought I bombed it. Really? I thought absolutely bombed it. Yeah. But yeah. No, I it's. It was an interesting experience, and it's it's nice to know that you actually saw something from that, because I don't think I actually lived up to the standards that were set. Yeah. And now writing them, it's yeah, it's very interesting. It's full on. What I saw in you was that you you were a little stressed, like it's a full on situation here. But it communicated to me that you really cared. So it was like. It was a pressure situation, but you weren't going to pieces, you know, like you knew you weren't crushing it. But even though you knew you weren't crushing it, you'll hold it holding it together. And that's actually a really good attribute. That's the ability to work well enough under pressure. Yeah. So, yeah. And I think she was quite different. And I think the interview now to where it's evolved and the changes I've made is probably the most high pressure it's ever been. I think it's I would if I didn't crumble, then I would most certainly crumble now. It's so funny, because when we were talking about your vision and everything, even with the ATP athletic program in general. I'm ecstatic with what you're doing as the head coach and the reinvention of the internship. Making it even better. Is amazing. But I did think after one of the interviews, because one of the things to me was what we need to make it lower pressure. We need to make it a little easier. Yeah. We did not achieve that. Yeah. Because it's sort of wrapped it up. But I feel like it's a more it's a more informative pressure you've created, particularly at which we can dove into a bit later with a program that the interns have to write. I think the set up that it is now is has been designed to reward those who put the prep in. I think certainly now that it's you and myself being that panel interview, I think is an additional element to that. But there's time to prepare and there's a case study in it now. So let's talk about so it's still fundamentally us asking difficult questions of highly ambitious young interns. But I think the ability to do the case study has been a real game changer, isn't it? Yeah, definitely. And then my thought process behind putting the case study in was that we have a lot of graduates, we have a lot of people from different levels of experience. And it's a nice way to gauge exactly where they're at. And it's also just a great talking pace to be able to discuss and and provide feedback. And it's a big thing for us is just seeing how well someone will actually take on feedback from their program. So I really liked him implementing it. I thought it did well. I think it was great. We had mixed results with people's programs, which we'll get into. But I liked having today, and I would certainly do it again. Well, I love it, too, because it's another way we can add value. One of the things that most bothers me about the internship is we get way more applicants than we can ever take. And every single semester, we're rejecting people who are just great. They're not just like it's not like we're just rejecting people who are mediocre or people who will be rejecting actual great candidates because we just physically don't have the space to fit them in, because we can't have a situation where you've got six interns watching one athlete coach. Yeah, there's there's sort of dynamics that have to be respected in the business. And so rejection these cracking people. And I hate that. Yeah. But at least now I feel like we're giving them feedback on their resumé and then feedback on their program and feedback on the interview. So we're giving them a bit of a leg up for whatever they do, as well as maybe some. Sometimes I'll be a bit I'd rather be direct and risk having someone jump in the car will not jump. Sort of sort of slump in the car. Yeah. And feel terrible, but have a really hard think about what they're doing. Because I do think there's this this mismatch where. Every single person who steps through the door says, I want to work in elite sport. I want to be the best of the best. I know it's super competitive, but I'll do whatever it takes. Like everyone tells the story of their own alienness. But it's not the case that they actually put in an elite level of of work. And I think that the reality check is actually quite, quite handy for some of them. Yeah. No, I do like that. And I think, as we said, it's high pressure. Naturally, most people don't perform well or their best. I like that. Given the case study and having some time to prepare for that allows a piece of your work that shows you at your best. Yeah, it's it's like, OK, we understand you're going to be nervous. We understand this pressure. You might fluff your words. You might speak too fast and that's okay. But in balance that out by having a task that's actually going to have you on paper your best work. And that's something that's really valuable to see both sides. So might be the difference to coming in here and being nervous? Well, you've actually have a really clear idea of what you want to do. Your thoughts are smart and you've laid it out really well. So, yeah, and some people would great work. Yeah, really good work. Going to I am I always end the internship interview process thinking would I have got in? Yeah. But I got into thinking, what do you think? Now that I would like young me was an idiot. You know, like me in his early 20s, just walking around, bumping into stuff like I would not have gone gone. Well, I would have been nervous out of my brain if I was smart enough to know how much benefit this would have had. Hmm. That's a big if if I was smart enough at that point, I would have been so nervous. I would have stuffed it up and I wouldn't have prepared adequately. I don't think it's not until you get in the room and it's almost like you can say it because I said, oh, I really needed to prepare this really well, just from, you know, like the layout of the program, like just making everything as good as you can make. Yeah. And I think that's it. Like we're obviously not artists, but we all I think as coaches enjoy that level of creativity. That's why we write programs. I think that's part of the reason people enjoy that so much. And we don't need the most pretty's program with the most. It's like effort in formatting that does need to be presentable. And there wasn't any criticism on the program itself. I don't think like we're not judging you based on how well your program was, but how did you just maybe was maybe there a little. We'll get to that a little bit. However, if if it's presentable, it reads well. It's structured nicely and it's been completed. And the set time. It says a lot. It says a lot. So you made a really good point. And one of the interviews and it was just around the presentation of a particular example, and it was, look, you've got to hand this. Imagine, you've got to hand this program to the athlete. What do you want the athlete to think of you when you hand in the program? And I thought that was really because it's not good enough. Just have a few dot points. You know, it's like it's really obvious that you wouldn't just scribble down some stuff on the back of a newspaper and say, here's a program that's obvious. Yeah. But at the other end, it's not as obvious that you should have a well laid out so the person can just pick it up, read it, understand it and think, wow, this coaches is a real pro. Yeah, this coach cares. They've put some time in behind the scenes to help me. I think that says a lot for the buying and building that trust with with the athlete is like, this is great. I know exactly what I need to do. Some effort has been put into this. Yeah. And that trust, that's such a huge piece of that. Is the currency really particular in the early days? Yeah, I reckon we should talk about the actual programs. Yeah. Yeah, let's do it. So what was what was the biggest surprise for you looking at the programs? Well, I think we live in a bit of a bubble here. Yeah. Yeah. It's a context threat for listeners and viewers is that a case study was presented to the Internet and it was a 16 year old basketballer looking to improve their vertical acceleration. Female, female. No injuries and no gym experience and was in the general size. And we saw a lot of different things. Hmm. All not tied into what you would expect from that case study. Hmm. I think certainly people in an attempt to impress us would probably overdo the programs to make it look smarter all than it needed to be. Hmm. When reality doesn't need to be that, does it? No. No fundamentals and brutally. Well, yeah. Yeah, I definitely think the the instant ramification of strengthening this is a really interesting trend because we saw a lot of stuff that would look really cool, like we had one which was depth jumps, which is like a level. What does it level six? It's high. It's high. Yeah, it's it's certainly not square one. Depth jumps and Trepp we saw a bunch of Tretbar jumps more than I would have. I never would have imagined so many people would think a good. Starting Point will be jumping with a that that's like square one. Yeah, and I'm in trouble. Jumps are brilliant. But yeah, it was it's like the analogy I would make is, you know, if you're teaching how to kick a footy, you don't start with torpedo's from 70 meters. Yep. Yeah. Or in basketball for an international audience. You don't start with half court jump shots. You know, you start under the basket, you work your way out, you build your technique. So there was a lot of really, really high level stuff thrown into the programs. And I think that was the most interesting thing, that not many people had the courage to go basic. Well, OLG ordered simple stuff. And the ones that did those programs that were sensible, starting points that were sensible, and those who did that had a good understanding of where that program needed to go. Now, if you start at level five or six with those plyometrics and you're not respecting that continuum, there's nowhere to go. There's definitely been a few steps that have been skipped in the best programs were those that started from rock bottom that would progress into where it needs to go because those individuals had thought about. Progressions, they thought about the longer process into more of a specific phase, and it was definitely a catch. A lot of people did it really well, but it was designed to catch people out. And that's exactly what it did. Yeah, it was interesting, as you've been talking about, I think the good programs are built on a first principles basis up. And it's like, okay, what does the athlete need? Where are we trying to go? Where are we at now? Let's put it up. But the I would probably say the majority of the programs I felt will go backwards from what some cool shit to put in the program that make me look like I'm a good coach. Yep. But the essence of a good coach is actually if that if if the most advanced stuff is what made you a good coach, then the best coach in the world would just prescribe thousand kilos squats. I would just go the heaviest, hardest, most difficult exercises like that's coaching is about the person in front of you. What do they need? Now, it was very interesting. And I also felt that. I suspect almost none of them did the program themselves. Hmm. Because I reckon I would have met a lot of changes, like we had one where there was like five grip fatiguing exercises in a row. And so the chap by the time you get to that fourth one, you are toast. You can't can't pick up a one kilo dumbbell. Definitely. Yeah. The program in front of you and how that stacks up in real life is comes with experience. Definitely. But yeah, playing that ad in your mind to see exactly how that would take take its course is Superman. And in the gym I give you. Yeah, I am. I remember I've always believed on doing everything I give an athlete is an exercise that I have done, you know. And I had one of those sliding doors moments where I saved my career by doing that. It was 2004, early 2004. We just won the national championship for the boomers ranges for Africa in the previous year. And I want to wrap things up. I want to go hard at it because we want to go back to that. Really? Yeah. And so what I did was add to this great draw that I'd seen the Chicago Bulls used to do where you had to. It was like 60 seconds to dunk the ball as many times as you could and it to run out of the key every time. It was a composite of a kind of agility wingspan, which I had have and had none. And vertical leap, which I used to have a bit of. And I had the the guy at the stadium lower the ring down to a height. I could dunk it up and time because I was just I was like, I think this is a brilliant drill. I think the girls are going to love it. It's going to add some spice to the session. But honestly, it myself just to test it. And I did it and on the, you know, third dunk. And I was getting tired and really kind of reached up and tried to elevate it to slam the ball. And I just felt this tearing sensation in my records, Adobe on some other. And I landed. I was like, oh, oh, no, that can't be good. Hooter's, Anab. And I was in all I couldn't move for three weeks. I was in agony. You had physio on an abdominal teve. That's not pleasant. Drinking is the worst. I haven't had it on a tear. But what if it's the worst pain you've had from a physio? I've had my diaphragm released. Oh, that was pretty scary. Yeah, it's painful and personal. It's like really? You really fall into that. Yeah. But yeah, anything abdominal to really get to where you need to be is. Yeah. Firm, and it's very direct. Yeah. So anyway, imagine imagine the world in which I was like, now this is a great idea, I'll do it. And our starting point guard, the abs like that's that's not good. So yeah, I think test everything. Just everything. Make sure you do it yourself. And it's um. Yeah, definitely having a standard issue, which you can actually do that program as well as is somewhat important. And what we found as well with the interview is just physical standards, too. So part of the part of the entire interview is some physical, physical work. Some squats, some push ups, some running. So very definitely very important that you can actually maintain a good standard there, too, that it looks impressive. You need to be a coach and it needs to be impressive. And it doesn't need to be just tick the box. No need to own three reps. And you've spoken about the magic of just three reps, the crisp triple. That's the crisp triple here, because the christabella implies that you've got another ten to fifteen in the tank like you do your first three so easy that it just looks like you could just do it for like they should be in your Chris triple has to be zero sense of thing of the third being harder than the first. Yeah. Even if if a third is like ninety nine percent of of the first you've actually fouled, you don't have a crystal ball and if you got that. Yeah, it just implies it's kind of like infinite reserves of strength and it just makes you look sharp and like, you know what, you do it . But you had people who whose first one was poor enough that I wasn't sure they had a second Adobe for a couple more years just to say, yeah. So the Demopolis. It can't be taught well enough at uni because it's just not the nature of the uni space. But that ability to demo really well, it's just you don't have time to write an essay on the general and also the athletes. Athletes aren't going to respect you writing an essay about how like you should be doing. They just want you to like show me. Hmm. So that was that was huge as well, wasn't it? Yeah. No, definitely not. It very important that you can actually maintain and yet. But Chris triple. Yeah, very important. Do you think we should be mixing it up more? Because I worry that people it's going to be too predictable now. Yeah, there was a couple there were like we banked up a few interviews and we were running a little behind time and I could see what it was like to kind of take a few notes. And there's going to be a push up in a a a squat coming out, thrown out Aly in there at a couple of times. Yeah. Yeah. So I think yeah, we're going have to talk. We might have to we have to shift the wild wildcard in that song. Yeah. Yeah. What were the other things that you saw from the the process? Anything else that stood out? There was a big thing for us, particularly running the internship is like we put a lot of time and energy into it, and those who respect it understand that we're putting a lot of develop into them, having a clear understanding of why you're coming here in the first place, as opposed to just thinking it's a good idea and known and heard it's a good thing. There was a few times where I'd asked the an individual like, what exactly do you want to get out of this? You got twenty two weeks. What do you want to leave with this from and how is it going to help you? So those who have a clear sense of what they want to do was massive. Yeah. So far ahead. The decision, I would say. Yeah, there was one interesting element, though, were them giving me giving us a clear sense of what they wanted. Also was a bit of a contrast to the deficiency, because still I still can't get over how poor the general standard of functional anatomy is, like with, you know, all of that, who wants to be a millionaire? Is that a reference that still works or is it such an old show that it doesn't work anymore? No, I think it works OK. Yeah. Yeah, I play on my own. So the idea of the very first question on on the telly show, Who wants to be a millionaire was always like really easy. Yeah. And so we laid in with a very, very simple question. And and so the one we used was this will change over time. But it was what's the role of Glueck, Max? And we had, you know, people say flection, which is just the opposite of a troll. And we had all sorts of fuzzy answers at that. Then you're like, let's unida, because it's the biggest muscle in the body. You should be able to talk about that. Well. Yeah. But then as we go to some of the more complex questions and then all crazy complex, like we're not talking about owning the the muscles in the feet or the hands or, you know, deep rotator cuff stuff and the still relatively because it's kind of like there's there's the absolute rock star most like everyone knows what a peck is. There's no one that doesn't know what. So that's the real, you know, high profile muscles, hamstrings, PEX quads. But everyone is took a little step down to that kind of second tier. It was still amazing how many people just didn't know where the muscle was, what it did, how it worked or how to train it. Hmm. And I'm just like you. If you want to work in a late sport, you want to be the best of the best. You want to be the 99 percent or you want to live in that pointy end of that that pyramid. Then your knowledge and application to the acquisition of the knowledge has to be at the same level. Like if you want to be that good, you want to really know your stuff. And it felt to me like there was somewhere between like a I don't know, a five and thirty five percent differential between where people wanted to be, ambition was and where their knowledge was. And I appreciate that's why they're coming here, like they want to get the leg up. But you should you should really go into these interviews having nailed that part of it. Yeah, definitely. And a lot of the a lot of the time people come to us because they want to work on their programing, like through internships and the experiences that they want to develop their programing skills. And I really doubt how well you can program if you don't have a strong base of anatomy. Yeah. Like I'm not sure how that stacks up. If you don't know the muscles, you don't know where they are, how they work, and you can choose exercise based off of what you already know. Yeah, I I'm concerned for someone's prescription if they're writing programs and not knowing anatomy very well, because it prohibits you from being able to take and I bang on this and apologize if you cyclase to you as well as that. If you do that, if you take that approach, if you don't have that base, you can't work up from first principles. If you literally banned yourself from doing the most important thing, which is working your way forwards from those. So you can't really get a sense of what you need. So you just actually working backwards is like learning how to build a car versus just reverse engineering. It just kind of an imitation of a car that doesn't actually work like it looks looks right. And a lot of the programs, I think, suffered from that a little bit. What were you like? I can't remember what your functional anatomy was like. What was it like when when you were getting started? It was still the the the formaldehyde, which we do now. So starting with an easy one and progressing through. As I said, I was nervous. You asked me what? Glueck, Maxted? I said, flection. I did. So I like look, there's naturally going to be slip ups and you're like hip flexion. It's like, OK, guys, question me. It's definitely not sit back. I had a breathe that was like hip extension and it went on to support that by why that's so important. So I probably saved my bacon there just by going a little bit more detail. Yeah. Um, there you asked some other ones, which I won't spoil just because we'll run out of muscles and did OK. I think I was probably two from three. Yeah. Yeah. So not fantastic. Um. And did you go and study up more subsequent to that coming into the internship that gave you a bit of a sense of. Absolutely. Yeah, that was a bit of a it was a wake up call for sure. Like there was I knew there was a level of um, I had to meet to be here, first of all, and leaving that I definitely felt like I hadn't met that. So that was OK, I need to step back. I need to brush up on the anatomy. Um, and I was second year university at the time. Yeah. Um, so definite. Had some more anatomy to go through, but it definitely should have been higher than what it was at the time. Yeah, it's um, it's interesting to me how poor interviews are a predictor for success. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, Jacob was Jacob was this close to not make it into the internship because of his intern, you know, by his own admission, probably wouldn't have got in in a more competitive year. And, you know, it's grown into being my business partner and an amazing asset who makes, you know, makes me better and has been tremendous for the business. And you've grown into being the head coach of the whole thing. Fagots like it's still and that's it's just really hard. Like you just you can't really get a perfect radio. Interviews are just it's extremely challenging and that's like treat it as a job interview. Um. Yeah, I arbitrator's a job interview in terms of the level of prep you would need. So maybe going through the internship like I didn't have a job interview, like you didn't suddenly go, okay, you finished your interview, let's sit down and have a single interview for a job. Yeah. Like that was the foot in the door that laid everything to where it is now, because you can say, hey, how are you? How you operate? Yeah. So obviously you only get one first impression. And sitting across from us is really sets up everything beyond that. Um, but yeah, now there's a deficit or something and pay it off. And we do get a lot of questions from interns being like, what is your selective criteria? Yeah. What are the big ones would be what are you saying? Because sometimes the knowledge doesn't stack up. I still come down to that sort of grit idea, that idea of you want it and you'll eat broken glass to get there. Hmm. You know, like you commit it. It's a combination of committed and just sort of that understanding that it won't always be easy. Um, and and like I mean, obviously you got to be nice human, like if you if you suck to work with. Yeah. Life's too short to work with that. We don't enjoy their company. But I think that grit, because if you if you have the grit, then you will tend to um, if you can eat broken glass to get there, then you I mean, the saying I'll really motivate athletes. What I'm always looking for is have I got them in a state where when I say you need a broken glass, as I call Wakulla, you know, not much. But at what point? What's the dosage? Yeah. Like, just typically that's a metaphor. No one should be eating actual broken glass. Oh, good. But yeah, I think that if you do that, well, then you'll accept feedback. You'll you'll chase feedback, you'll focus on your weaknesses rather than just your strengths. And you'll you'll be really good. Yeah, I think I think that's the most important thing I'm really interested in. I want to I want to give a couple little tips in a minute, but before we do that. I, I think people sometimes have the impression that it's like, OK, you decide to do that thing to an amount of work to do that thing, get that thing like it's quite a short process. I'd like you to talk about your what you did to put yourself in a great position, because some people look at you as well, head coach of a leading ATP at such a young age. Geez, he's been lucky. You haven't been lucky portion of it, you know, like you've worked hard at it. Take us through. I'm really curious just to hear your your journey. Hmm. It's as you said, like there's there's three points and it's on paper. It's very short. But everything in between is quite long. Like there's a long destination between starting developing and then now where I am. And it came over a bunch of things like it's this internship is not the only thing I've done, though. I've spoken. This was your first. Yeah. Yeah, this is my first. This was actually my first experience into S.A., which opened the door and pushed into other directions with my time at North Melbourne and Melbourne United, which I'll touch on. But yeah, it started off at university. That second year was where I sort of had my eyes opened and thought I need to get some experience here. And how did you find out about us? It was from a colleague who I was working with at the time as a sports trainer, recommended recommended Cordain. And I went down and and did the research and had a look. And it was like, okay, that's that what that person said matched up with the expectation, the professionalism that came across. I was like, that's where I need to be. And I've spoken about this in that first podcast I did in terms of my run through to now. But um, yeah, that led into here. And I was very green. I didn't know anything. And it was an intern for 11 months. But in that time, was also doing some work with Melbourne United as a sports trainer. Um, my thought process behind everything in the way it's worked out is the luck that I call it, because it's it's been tough, but everything that I set out to do is sort of tick the box. And I was attacking it from both ends with the SNC and then also being on that acute rehab, working closely with the physio and my entry to anything I've ever done. Nobody, not at all. North Melbourne was strep ankles and run water. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. It's the easiest part to get in there. Yes. You have to take some time away. And and as you said, eight the glass. Yeah, definitely eight some glass. But that just progressed into a point where you were able to show that you were a good fit for that organization, that culture, that team, that you can then have a further discussion and talk about. OK, I have an interesting this and say, is there an opportunity where I can explore that? And it's exactly what happened with North Melbourne. I went a full season running water on game days and strapping ankles as a sports trainer, had an exit interview after one season and said, this is actually what I do during my day working here with athletes and like, oh, that's really interesting. Into their push to try to assist the and say the following season. And it just started from there. So. It at one point I was at university, I was at Melbourne on it, I was interning here, and they were all just sort of funneling into his one point in time where you were also working at the same time. And I was also working the money. Yeah. For money? Yeah. To pay rent. So there was a lot of pieces to it. And then once the university finished. There was quite a moment like I had a lot of momentum, and that's where I started to pick up hours, he came I was a casual coach and um, in my first year out of my grad, I had 110 athletes. He had managing 110 athletes individually programing for Sensa, and then that just full of flowed on. And I say to everyone, and why would promote the internship is the gym floor that we have out there is just such a breeding ground of diversity where you can you literally it is what you make it. And that's, I think, having exposure to so many things at such a young raw age. Push it to where it is now. And it's really at there has become we've got the reputation still in the water, sometimes in some pockets of the community of iure the basketball gym. Yeah. Like we were. Yeah. And we still love basketball and basketball. We do it very well. Yeah, but we've got, what, 26 plus sports. Some like that. Thirty one. Thirty one. Thirty one. Yeah, thirty one. Unique sports. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so it's it's and the aim for me was always I want to be like a private eyes or private the eyes where anyone who wants to help, whatever the sport can get help. And I feel like we've kind of hit that now where it's it's much more in line with the original vision and being a young coach and having thirty one unique sports. I was a soccer background. The amount of pressure that was there to then go above and beyond and learn about the needs analysis of that sport, actually watch it to then write a program for it, I think was the pressure that pushed me to where I am now . Um, because you need to be like you couldn't fake it. It simply wouldn't work. So the pressure of having. The pressure of knowing I didn't know a lot forced me to work on it and bring it up and touch on things, and I think that's kind of in essence why it's sort of pushed me to where I am now. And like I always say, there is a bit of Locan being head coach now. Yeah, it's well, yeah. I mean, I wonder, too, in a sliding doors moment where for reality, what if like if Covid hadn't happened? Because the reality is all footy clubs jettisoned a lot of the people. Yanyuwa, one of them caught up in that. Yep. And you know, that gave you the opportunity to really focus on this because you weren't having because you could you know, you can't focus on two things at the same time. You can. The definition of the word focus is to focus on one thing. And that probably was a forcing function that helped you to focus on this, which has ended up being hugely like that's directly led to you being appointed as head coach. Yeah. Yeah. So it's sometimes I suppose that's a bit of luck in a weird way. Yeah, I think definitely. Definitely. And it sort of gives a developed at the time. Definitely didn't feel like at the time, but it was nice to know that that was there and um, it all happened in such a short amount of time just for that kind of Audition. Yeah, it's going really well. And start with how the program is progressing and the changes we've made. And as you said, like the program is probably now showing its true flavors of what it's always meant to be. We're absolutely humming along. And, um, I would say that the athletes are very much enjoying it more. And that autonomous moler that we've spoken about previously is that it's so merits it's. I still can't believe how wrong I had it like I had. I had the right end point. But my my my roadmap to get there was so wrong. But it's great now, particularly with it with the new the new layout. That's so good. We had a great time, an intense day of arguing and, you know, getting the new layout spot on. And that's just just been great. Before we wrap up, uh, one of the things one of the unfortunate the thing that I really dislike about the internship is you interview people, great people, and you have to say, sorry, you didn't make the cut. The thing I dislike at least as much as that is we just don't physically have the time to respond in detail to all the people that didn't make it. Yeah. Because at the moment, the internship, if you if you look at the amount of hours it soaks up, it probably is at least two months of a full timers time. Did you add it all up? All of the things the administration over the delivery, all that stuff? It's a big chunk of a thing for something that we don't charge any money for. And I'm pretty intent on not charging money for it. And look, we have the we have Catalist and Trachsel online courses that take the content and turn that into a product that's available that that don't make the cut or leave internationally. But we don't have the ability to give that individual feedback because it would then take another place starting a week of giving all that feedback. So we just have to say, okay. Best of luck. And if you don't make it. Sorry. What are the pieces of Fabick? It's probably going to be summarize what we told you. Yeah, which is a good way to wrap up. One of the things that you think are most important to give when people failed, it was because of these few things. What are those things? I'd say definitely those who didn't treat it as if it was a job. Yeah, No. One, I think the professionalism of coming in and speaking about it and to do your research. Hmm. Who is core bench? And this this can be applied to anyone like this. This is necessarily also I would say this is to anyone going for any job ever. Or an internship is do you research on the person that you would be contacting to do your research on the company, what they're about, what they do? And in doing that, you might actually find is a bit of a loophole where you have a strength that you might be able to approach that site. I'm not very good at this, but I'm very good at this. And I know this isn't something you offer. Yeah, that's a great point of separation. And that's all I think the the best people and the ones that are most memorable for the interviews is those who have a separation. And that's just one way of doing it. And I would also say definitely functional anatomy. And we've touched on that already. So I need to dove any deeper on it. But yes, songs from that, I mean, to be right up there. So how much you care by owning that stuff? Yep. And show a willingness to learn, a willingness to learn and be comfortable taking feedback and ask good questions. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So if you if you didn't make it, it was probably cause that was one of those things that you could be better at if you looking to make in future years. All those things in. And that'll put you in a great spot. Yeah. So if the show notes for today, what do we need to have? I reckon I can, Jacobs. He made a vlog about how he didn't nearly didn't get in on his experience. That's a good one to watch. And he and I had forgotten. But you mentioned we did a physical standards episode. And I think that, you know, the summary of that at. So it is if you want to be in strength and conditioning, you need to do strength and conditioning. Yeah, but it's worth it's worth diving into that as well. And the last one we've got, we'll put links to our courses as well, because they're always a good option, because you can. One of the other ways that we can make ourselves a little bit better at the fact we have to reject so many people is that you can actually still buy the knowledge. So if you didn't make the cut, there is another another avenue to to get that learning via the online courses. And we've got a little mini one, the functional anatomy course. Yeah, that's right. If you want to just do one course, that tiny little one would be a bit well worth it. Cool. Awesome, right? I think that's it, isn't it? Yeah. That's all for me. All right. Cool. Thanks. So you guys next week. Thanks.