Notes mentioned in this episode of The Athletic Development Show:
Core Advantage is one of the most respected athletic performance providers in Australia, specialising in athletic development strength and conditioning programs, athletic testing, online CEC education courses. Find out more at the Core Advantage website or on Instagram.
OK. Welcome to the Athletic Development Show. Special guest today, Riley Goodman. Welcome to the show Riley. Thanks for having me. Super excited to get you on. Lots of stuff to talk about. The first thing I think I want to talk about, I know you are gold medal level are getting, getting and doing brilliant internships, and I want to talk about a few of those and then about your work here at Corvina as a coach. And there's all sorts of other things I want to touch on. Your work as a as is a Schapper is at the top of the stack up almost. But I'm interested in diving straight into the arguably one of the hardest, not arguably, definitely one of the hardest internships to get into in the world to Krisi internship, which you did. Tell us about how you went about that. And yeah, let's let's talk about that. I think it's really interesting. Yeah. So it was end of 2019. I was finishing up my internship with Kord Advantage after a year on 11 months of being here. I'd also just finished my degree in exercise and sport science. And it was towards the back end the year. And I was looking well, I'm not really sure what's happening next year. I didn't know I was going to get a job here just yet. That wasn't confirmed. So I was looking towards what's the next step for me? And I stumbled across Jamie Smith at strength culture. And he had done the best. He sportswomen internship for years prior. I thought, oh, they they take Australians. Why not? Why not head over to America? I can go back for a few months and try it out and just apply it off my own back and just express interest just for the sake of moving from one facility in Australia and saying what they do in America and how it's different, how it's similar in a lot of ways, and to try and take myself out of my comfort zone. So I moved over there and tell me what what was the process like getting it? So one interview, two interviews. How did that all unfold? Funnily enough, there was a similar thing where the initial form you fill out is very direct with how I should do it. Something that we've also done similar where it has to be attention to detail. If you can't apply attention to detail, then you're going to miss. That's your first entry level. It's a good filter, isn't it? Yeah, it's a great filter for people. And then from there, I had an interview. So after getting accepted to interview stage and interview at four a.m. in the morning, which is just a nice 3pm for them in the afternoon. Then they did. I didn't try and make it easy for you, and I hadn't looked too much into that. That was the best time for them. So, yeah, for four, 30 in the morning, I was up. Did you tell the day ask you what time was and did you tell them? They let me pick the time. So they said, oh, we've got these availabilities here. And I had a time zone thing in front of me. I'm like, I can do both. Thirty five in the morning, I guess. So I made that work. Got up really early, showered, sat there for about half an hour. Had a great chat with John O'Neill, the high performance manager there, and then paid to play. This is at the Massachusetts facility. So and then from there, I was lucky enough to get the call up, had to figure everything out with visas. That was that was up to me to organize, but managed to do that at the start of 2020 before things turned a bit south. Mm hmm. It was good timing. And in terms of the preparation for it, because they need you to be kind of hitting the ground running, and so they provide you with a fair bit of preparatory content. Yep. What did that look like and how how did you find it? Did you feel you're ready when you're good to go? It was tough. They one of their main markers was to look at their exercise database. They have a massive, massive spreadsheet spreadsheet from about twelve plus years of operating full of exercises that filmed and talked over. One of our main things was to be across as many of them as possible and all the iterations that came with that. So just being prepared that when you're looking at their programs, you're it's not just a bunch of gibberish. You can speak the language kind of you can speak the language so that you're not there trying to apply your own previous stuff. You know what they use. You know, it looks like you roughly know how to coach it. Mm. Yeah, that was that was the main thing I recalled being nervous about going over there. Yeah. And did you have the memorized like we do? You've got a pretty good memory. Yeah. How would you rate house? Since we were I would say I learned the language, so I understood that position. Implement action. Yep. So everything would follow those three. Our criteria position employment. It's a nice way of breaking it down. Yes. So everything would find that like a split stance, cable. Yeah, that's actually a good logic. Yeah. So once you learn that language, it's just a matter of kind of figuring out all the positions, knowing all the implements, and then knowing all the actions. And you can essentially speak that language. And then from there, it's just when you have a fancy name attached to something like we like to do, like a Bulgarian Spetz. Yeah. You didn't know what a Bulgarian, which we don't call it here at court, that we don't just refer to elevated split squad courtesy of Mike Boyle. Yeah. So it's it's only when you get stumped by the things named after people. Hmm. I hate the name of things after people of countries like I'm so much in favor of where the name if you can read, if you can speak and read English. Yeah. You can think your way through what the movement actually could be. I think it's that much too hard to do stuff from a learning perspective just to pick that up. Yeah. Mm hmm. The only one still I think probably the only one in the business that we have that's actually geographically named is the rdl. What about Copenhagen? OK. There's two. I don't know why I hang on to some reason I'd like Copenhagen as. It's totally inconsistent of me, but I just like it for some reason. I would say an rdl would fit more makes more sense than I totally agree. I don't think at Copenhagen really justifies it should be called a a short lever or a long lever adductor bridge. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually the right name for it. Mm hmm. You know, hypocrite. So you're over there and just kind of thrown in the deep end. Yes. What was it like the first few days? What what did I tell you? What did you do? You know, because it's the context for those that don't know about Crecy. So he is the crazy Baphomet is the number one baseball specific strength and conditioning business in the world. They are one of the bigger S.A.C. businesses in the world as well. They got in, got in early, and Krisi did a really good thing of doing a tremendous amount of writing really early on and just getting a big name through, getting his thoughts out when when the the thought leader marketplace wasn't quite so crowded. Yeah, they did a exceptional job of grabbing that opportunity. What was it like, though, in that first beat? You're quite intimidated. You dove into this, you know, big step up in terms of the ability. What was that about? Well, I was I was nervous, obviously. Then the first day I was over there, moved into a little apartment underneath a house by myself. The other two housemates from different states in America weren't there yet. Right. To catch an Uber to just to get there in a day early and just kind of wandered around as this quiet little Australian boy just trying to talk to people as much as I could. That was an informal start. And then come the formal start, it was similar to what we do here. It's gym safety first. Don't hurt anyone making sure you can move in within the space and make sure the space is set up. Safety was number one priority. And from there, it's just observe and just learn through osmosis. Try to take in as much as you can. One of the goals for week one on day one was you have to learn the name of every person that comes through the door. Yeah, same as us today. We were there right in that busy period right before their spring training or preseason training for baseball. And it's like you're expecting one of our busiest days of the year is early January, about 100 plus people coming in today. You are expected to know 100 names. Wow. On the way out. Yeah. I don't think that was literal. But the the pressure was pressure on. Yeah. Yeah. And that was that was the Gulf, the first in a while. Just talk to as many people as you can and try to get comfortable. Yeah. I didn't know that much about baseball, but I suppose obviously not a big sport in Australia. So although we do punch a bit above our weight, we produce quite a few college level baseballs. But it's just not on our on our radar, is it? And it's certainly not a major sport. It may be in top 10. You'd have to you'd have to argue with Oricon in the last. Well, I know in the last twenty one years we've trained like maybe three baseballers, like, well, you know, it just it's not it's not a huge thing. And baseball strength and conditioning from one stand is something that still needs work. That is the unfortunate side of where he found their model. That didn't start out as a baseball specific gym. They happened to move into a building that had pitching cages next to the gym. And I didn't know that really. So from this serendipity. Yeah. From there it was just all this baseball is next door. Let's get them on baseballs in. And they found a niche through an underserved market. I thought it was this brilliant move on us. This is this brilliant strategic move. But it was just they saw an opportunity in our day that gile they ran with it. They were flexible in their business model. They they began more general and Palestine based, I believe. And then as as business start to work for them. They they made it work. Yeah. And so you maybe think of it from the powerlifting point of view. So Chris's own lifting I've seen over the years is pretty powerless. Yes. Uh, do they train their baseballers like that as well? This is from what I saw. There's there's always those underlying things that come from from your roots. This certainly like in that gym space, there was a deadlifting platform in the middle. It was it was set up, as you might say, a palliating gym. And some of the some of the movements include are inclusive of powerlifting, but they'll do things from the blocks, not necessarily from the floors. Take the edge. Yeah. They're still they're still primarily focused on spring conditioning. But you can see the you can see where powerlifting has had its influence with time. Yeah. A couple of universities before. And this is a bit technical. So apologies those who don't like going to the weeds. But if you don't like going to the weeds, this is the wrong podcast for you. So what about on bench press? So powdering bench is Pinus gaps. Yep. And pitching a baseball is all about not pinning the gaps. That doesn't mean you can't do both. What did they do? They go a traditional powerless to set up on on a bubble bench. From what I saw, no, that could have been the part of the season, but also that there were certainly some people bench pressing. But that was more some of the general population clients, OK. The baseball is again in the policies. And there was a lot more dumbell press. Yeah, a lot more. One arm press is working on a.. Rotation based work with that same floor pressing they're a lot more focused about. Scapula thoracic rhythm and making sure the scalp can move freely around the ribcage and everything surrounding that, it's far more important for that pitches than Adobe bench press. The the upper body strength certainly still gets hit there. So the cable flies, they find their way there. But the pinning back of the scalp on a strict Bibo bench press. I didn't say it at all. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I mean, you really want the scabs to dance around the ribcage so that the shoulder can stay in a good spot. So it makes all the sense in the air. Yeah. And when you're trying to maximize the amount of leverage you can you can whip around with in a baseball pitch. You want all the degrees of of movement you can control. So you went in there not knowing lots about baseball and put you on the spot. What do you know about it now? Tell us all about. Oh, make me less baseball ignorant. I wish I could say that I know more about the game. Yeah, I'll still watch the game and I'm still confused. The same way that if they watch cricket, it is confusing. But the mechanics of a baseball pitch, because they have a pitching station in the corner with their pitching coaches. They understand a lot more about how that works and the positions that they have to get into and then how we leverage that as a strength and conditioning personnel to like facilitate those positions. So what what are what are the big rocks there? What are the things that that it's what are the things that pitching is doing to your shoulder that you've got to compensate against in terms of keeping, you know, arm care and just keeping it all healthy and good? The main thing they're looking to, Aamco Care is the phrase they use is a lot of rotator cuff work and that some cuff strength, stabilization and cuff and the sequencing of it and canit cannot respond to the rhythmic stabilizations. Hmm. They use that to make sure that the rotator cuff is keeping that Kliner Hermel joint safe. And then from there, the next big rocks from the shoulder would be the elbow. Tommy John surgery. Yeah. What is Tom? I am Elba's. Unless you dislocate one like as did they talk about the other week on the podcast. Unless it dislocated, not a lot goes wrong with them apart from them getting noisy like my. I wasn't really noisy as I'm older. What's what what's Tommy Ron. I am embarrassed to admit I've seen it mentioned a bunch of times and I've actually not dived into. What is it? What's the injury it's for it's for the cruciate ligament in the medial side, the the with the the owner, the UCL, essentially it would be like into the Aquil ACL of the old school field sport world. Okay, cool. In the way that you sale's almost inevitable in some ways, but preventable in others. Okay. And that's the kind of thing that it just it happens and you have to take the time to get. Is it from the repetitive over internal rotation as so. Yeah. So they they end up in the middle pitches and the same, but they end up in extreme positions of layback where the external rotation of the shoulder is all the way back, which can really in. Yeah. Incorrectly loaded puts a lot of strain on the nerve and the ligaments of the medial elbow. So it's not the follow through, it's the wound up. That's the really problematic part. And then the follow through, it's that it's the conscious stretch shortening. It's you're you're trying to create a lot of momentum back to then throw it forward. Yeah. And if you're working through that range completely passively, rather than relying on active structures to generate that force, that's where you're going to say breakdown of the elbow a lot of the times. And what is totally. For those that are you what this is. But what is Tommy John? They just stitch is it a graft from somewhere else? So this stitched up again. What they actually do. This is one such I can't remember how far back. We will find a link and we'll put that in the show notes. Yeah, I'll read that to you. Interesting. Okay, cool. Uh, so you're over there doing that. And um, I'm also curious as to what was your big you're in a big place, famous place. How much bigger is it than than here? How many of us would you fit inside this? Mm. I think about this about one and a half. Maybe one point. Slightly less. One point like twenty five percent. Right. More about. So we've got a nice big gym here. Yeah, there's a slightly bigger because I feel like it looks like it's quadruple our size but. Yeah. Yeah. One and a half I'd say is roughly right. We could look it up and and it's it's a mathematical equation. Yeah, but yeah, it definitely feels like a big empty room. And they they obviously have part of that for their pitching. And then the rest is tax base and an open gym space. Hmm. So I want to talk about your visit to, uh, one of my most important mentors who I've never met in person, Mike Boyle. And it would jump on to that. What was your biggest couple of takeaways from from cracy performance? What did you get out of that? Were you like, this is how to distill it down to a couple of things that you learned out of it? There's a lot it came in a really good time for me to solidify my knowledge that it came out of being a core banish, Koinange was my first exposure to strength and conditioning and obviously being at university, but being here really showed me what this was like and how how separate to general weight training. On a personal level, it just really served to solidify what I knew, challenge things. There was a lot of open discussion aggressing. They intentionally set up their internship structure to be loosely followed closely following a plan. But the there was always room for discussion, no room to open things up. So we've made a little bit based on your feedback, we've made a little change to our internship here where we're going to have a fortnight because we got a lot of it's online and it is quite structured, but we're reverting back to a little bit more face to face where we've got once a fortnight, a 90 minute session together. Um. Specifically because I reckon what that's a really valuable thing to have. I think we missed a trick not having that for a little while. And some of the some of the best moments there were, not even when interns were talking, you'd have the coaches going back and forth or the physios going back and forth with each other, and you'd just be sitting there like, I can barely even keep up right now. But this is this is fantastic. Sounds great. Insisted Wednesday morning. Yeah, that's um yeah. The the biggest things I learned from them were the value of specific training, but also the value of general training. They have a lot to do, obviously, with shoulders and rotation. And with that comes loading up the back hip and single leg work and one on work. Which is all training that almost every athlete should be exposed to. For a lot of sports. And it was how you can how you manage that balance between what the athlete needs for their sport and then what they can get from the general preparation that just improves physical qualities all around. Speaking of what are your favorite rotator, rotational stuff can be done very well and very badly sometimes. What are your favorite warble rotational things? Or do you go to that you think more people should be doing because you're good at that stuff, too? It's very impressively like that. Both sunk into the wall. Yeah, the very, very bias for for good reason for medicine ball work in the way that power development without some medicine ball or slam ball. Back home medicine bowl. The ones that I throw. Yeah, I think I could be off on the on the. That's why I'm just that true power work where you can not have you have a release moment. Yeah. And you get to express that fully. Your shop would explain that a little bit more. I think that's so interesting is that so much of the gym, because it doesn't have that release moment. I thought talking about that. Well, power training, in essence, is we're trying to reflect the qualities of explosiveness and fast paced movement when we're in the gym. The limitations of some traditional power base training is maintaining form that is safe and not overextending and staying on the ground. It's in some circumstances, but in actuality, when there isn't an implement and when you are running and jumping and throwing your. Launching your body or propelling your body entirely? It's such a funny thing because it's like you're practicing jumping, like you're saying, okay, we got to practice jumping. But enol Adalet, if they practice, leave the ground while you practice your jumping. Yeah, I like that. That's literally a pretty big limitation on your jumping practice. Yeah, you're working against load, which is which is great for so many reasons. But then you have to practice decelerating to finish in a safe position. So whereas with the ball, with the ball, you get to launch it or you get a little bit of with the Olympic lifting, where you get to have that moment where the bar floats up and you catch it. So power training can look like either of those things for whatever reason. But to to have a moment where something is released and something the force is truly expressed is really important. So you're training a footy player or a basketball or soccer player from this soccer. The first two, what's the one thing you're going to pick for them using a ball? It's hard to say. I think the rotational element is the main thing that you can get out of medicine balls, you can use up other implements to get sagittal plane and vertical vertical stuff. I even wrote even jumping in stuff is a lot easier to do. So I decide up and down the rotational just a shotput past. Just up Nicea. Push through. Yeah. Get your hips facing the wall. Get it. Get a nice try. Get a nice hip shot. A separation. Yeah. And really create that rotation transfer. Yeah. And really practice expressing power through that rotary way because because some people look at that and go, oh well I don't need that to pass the ball or handball or whatever. But it's like it's not about that. It's also about like when you're cutting, you're actually. Yeah. There's that real transverse plane motion within any cut. Yeah. So it's not just about projecting an object, it's about you as the as the weapon kind of changing direction, isn't it? Yeah. That loading up of the the ship in the rotation, the rotation muscles around around the ship or working the transverse plane when you're changing direction, when you're doing a lot of movement. So you need to make sure the body can express that in a lot of in a lot of different ways. So shotput, past would be kind of your go to. Yeah, that's a safe go to. And then a scoop toss. If you're if you're trying to really isolate rotation about the hips and just try and take the arms out of it. And that's the go to and then when you want to add that shoulder hip, get a little bit lower power, you can you can include that then. Hmm. I hate the script because I'm I'm not that good at it. And just kind of like it's it's really kind of insipid impact against the wall and it doesn't feel like it's power. Yeah. That's really good at it. He's got yeah. He's got his golf background. Yeah, it's great. Is reflective of that where he can just generate from his hip. So it took me a while to get better at them. I love the shot. shot-Put pass a lot of personality. So you went you were there for quite some time. And the model at Cressy is less structured. It's less it's not a class setting, is it? It's individualized with coaches floating around. It's more like we have it these days. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, but then you went to Boyles, which is a very class structure, quite a quite a contrasting environment. Brilliant, but different. Yeah. Tell us all about that, because I can't hear enough about his stuff because I think he's I. Yeah, I think so. Clever. Yeah. Fascinating for me to go to both places which are geographically very close. It's surprising to have it. Good to have such. How close are they? Like an hour, I think. Right. I'd have to I'd have to check it. Right. You could go there. We drive out there a couple of times to have a look. Yet and two very successful private spring conditioning classes that operate on very differing, but both equally successful models in a way, like you said, Chris, is that very at the time was a very loose kind of you had your time, but you come in, there isn't necessarily a group of people joining you when you're starting. It's just whoever's there at the time. Boyles is very much segmented into your classification as an athlete, whether you're a general pop client, whether you're pro athlete, whether you're high school and potentially even middle school, they might or they might not that in the same day it was separated into those categories and it's short blocks in it, like 20 minutes starts or half hour starts every 15 minutes. It was at the time you'd have they would start with their far moling stretching, go to some movement skill, mobile staff, a few sprints. We know Boyle loves. Yeah. And then from there, mostly probably only relatively recently. So I think it's one of the things I love about him is that he's constantly evolving what he does, because most of us, once we get above about 45, like whatever we learn up to forty five, that's what we going to stick with. Do we die? Yeah. He's constantly evolving what he does. And the sprints emphasize the idea that that it's kind of futile doing what we call high speed stuff in the gym is still so stupidly slow that it's borderline irrelevant to what you're doing in terms of actual genuine velocity when you're moving down a track or in a field. That's been relatively recent thing that he's got into, but he's going into it hard. Yeah. And I really like that. I think that's that's great. I was fortunate enough to go to that winter seminar and so it would have been February twenty. Twenty. Yeah. Dan John was also a speaker there. Yeah. Cool. That whole day was fantastic at that facility. And he spoke for about two hours on everything he learned. Raichlen all the changes he'd made to his programing at his stage in his career when when he'd seen it all and probably none at all. Yeah. He was going to get up there and talk about the things he'd change his mind on and and develop further. One of those being sprint work and just the importance of a dose of sprint work. Yeah, once or twice a week, just even even if it's maintenance. But otherwise, for developing that quality, he would have these athletes. They do about a 15 minute sprint. Yeah. Once they warmed up and time and they're racing against themselves, they're trying to beat themselves every week. And for that competitive component, competitive push without necessarily racing someone way, you can go a little bit overboard. It's such a. I love how the tightrope of that, because if you if you make two people race against each other, you will get a bit of a sympathetic, dominant response, nervous system wise, and you tighten up a bit and your chances of tearing something are actually reasonably high. But if you make someone just try and beat their own best time, yeah, you're getting the intensity benefits. So you're getting that micro dosing of maximal intensity. Yeah. But below the threshold, we're likely to get soft tissues. And he did, you know, some reducing like 10000 reps over the summer and zero problems, but is really having them really go after it using using a timing gates every time every single run was time. So, yeah, he really pushed all of that. Yeah. And you can you could he would leverage that for it's a readiness check, you can say, compared to yourself. So you there are just very easy to overload. Tell someone to go there and it's it's immersing themselves. So that was one of the things one of the major takeaways from that day was the importance of a dose of sprint work. It's one of the reasons when we reorganize the gym here, we took everything off the track because we realized with the ongoing lockdowns and the stop start nature of the time, we're having sports wise, when people are in here, it's like, okay, we need to make sure we can get that micro dose of high speed work into them, which has been really good. Yeah. And so the facility, it's pretty structured. You work your way through in a group and you have to kind of go with the group. You can't just wander around. It's quite different. Yeah, it's almost like you're on a ride, isn't it? You have to go through. What was that like from your observation of the coaching? How does that change from the dynamic of Chrissy to bowl from what the the coaches have to bring into the equation? Because it's actually an almost it is different to me as beach volleyball is to indoor volleyball. Those two coaching. Yeah, we were watching the Olympics a lot on my mind. What was that? What did you say difference was in terms of how the coaches had to approach that challenge? A few things. I think another step back from that is Krejci, they have individualized programs similar to what we do. You have you have the athletes to get programed by specific coaches and they check in with them and they essentially managed by them. They're coached by everyone. Yeah, but that's the one person responsible for what they're doing in the gym. Boyle. On within that class system there, they have phases of training at that time, Boyle was writing all the programs, and then the adjustments would come from the coaches, knowing the groups and knowing their athletes and being reactionary to what the athletes presented them with. So you see a lot more corrections on the fly and adjustments on the fly from the coaches, making them think on the fate, thinking on their feet, and just probably more focusing on pure coaching. I'd say that would be the benefit is just you have to get in there and you have to coach the best you can with what's in front of you, as opposed to preparing something and just kind of letting it play out on its own, letting it kind of happen. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What do you think you're better at? I because you're an evolving coach. Yeah. You know, it's sort a thing you're working on. I think I'm better at having something preplanned. I like to have something ready to go. But that's as in everything, it's based off you experience. That's what I've been exposed to here. And that's you got to figure something out on the fly. And that's that's testing. But it's also exciting in a way that the problem solving of it always is part of what keeps you in it. Really, the creativity you can apply to that and the work arounds is really interesting. But in terms of my coaching experience, I've got I've been able to see more, not copy, mimic in and learn, learn from more individualized delivering program as opposed to. Yeah, working on the fly, working with just what's going what you've got in front of you and with the drop of a hat. Yeah, I don't know what I like more, I think I'm interested in problem solving we've got all the time in the world, and you get to really think through what's the perfect thing for this person. But also, I do quite like when you've got someone on the floor and you said you've just got to kind of macgyver it in the moment and and fix what's going wrong with them. And you get this sort of magical result of, wow, that's suddenly the guys are looking crap to looking really good in 30 seconds. I think it's something as you get experience life as you knew it, you kind of you know what you taught. And then as I've had the good fortune of being very lucky to do all these internships, I've seen a lot of people operating at all different ways. So you're kind of pinching tools and ideas from tool belts and it's like, alright, I can use this now. So as you get the requisite experience, you can then choose when to apply that or you like. I've seen this somewhere I can I can safely use this on this person now. And I definitely say I'm getting a lot better at that. Yeah, you are. Yeah. So big takeaway from from Boyle. What's the um, if anything, what's the big thing that you took know? Um, that that idea of being able to always adjust and on that day in that seminar. Dan John spoke about it. It's you got to you got to listen to these things that come up on social media and everything. And there's good takeaways and good lessons to be learned. But you also got to find what are you taking out to put in? So you have to weigh on a so important. Are you taking out a big rock to put in something you've seen on the Internet or have you done have you been like boil where you've rethought everything you like? Another big thing was he he favors you single leg training. Yeah. In a lot of cases, he puts his singular training before his bilateral training. And it's is still doing both, but he's finding a way just to without ever moving anything, just just leverage one and put more value into one than the other . He has singlehandedly shifted the our entire industry on single training. Like when I started out coaching, it was just I don't I was like, you doing this to grass court or you do Jane Fonda exercises. And Jane Fonda exercises were, you know, aerobics, you know, lying on your side hip lift or a splitsville like anything that didn't involve iron on your back. Yeah. Or lots of iron was just, you know, it was bullshit. Whereas he really pushed the idea, which I can't believe that this is revolutionary in like 2003, that sports played one leg at a time. So maybe we should get strong one like this. Yeah. Like because it's a low test. Like the adductor loads of single leg work are so different. Yeah. And the adductor loads of change direction in sport to a bilateral movement. Exactly. So, yeah, that was that was one of the big takeaways I had from that. So I had my foreign minister, but my wife's called and apparently she's got special privileges, so I'm sorry. My brother and I are a little distracted. So you went from the Krisi internship, the American experience. You came back here. And did you already have the vice internship lined up or did you get that after you got back? So the various internship, Victorian Institute of Sport for that for our overseas listeners, Australia has an institute, a sport system, which is a part of why on a per capita basis, we are one of the best supporting nations in the world, because we actually our government invests a bit of their money in that which which helps a lot and a very prestigious gigs. And so Rilly is at the Victorian Institute of Sport, which is a kick ass gig. I think it's a really great learning experience and very coveted. So how did you how did that happen? Yeah. So continuing from Krejci came back, we had our Covid lockdown's. Yup. Managed that through all of 2020, came back came out of that late 2012 and I'm not sure the exact month and began working here when when was available. And I was we were open when we went when we were open. And I was just looking for more. I was I was ready to keep learning. The internship model serves my style of learning a lot more from what I've from what I've figured out. Yeah. Because you're a Socratic learner. You like to ask questions. Yes. That's that's your learning methodology, which is a great way to learn. Yeah, that was something early before I started the coordinates internship. I was it was told to ask a million questions, and I kind of took that. Yeah. And ran with it. So I go out of my way to ask as much as I can. Stupid, not stupid. Like it's it's not Zubayr. I mean, if we I think it's one of the main reasons that that we hired you, because you ask thought provoking questions of flip things on their side that make you deconstruct stuff rather than just assuming, you know, it's like that five wise thing. We don't just ask the superficial question, but you ask deeper into it. It's a it's a great trait. Not not people ask questions enough or good questions. That's awesome for the sake of them. Yeah. So so I guess I was going somewhere where I can ask more questions. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good way of putting it. Yeah. That was at the end of end of last year. And that's been happening since January 20, 21. Yeah, get into the back end now. So I'm getting a bit wracking there, but that's been fantastic. And so I've been working and uh, a great strength conditioning coach had formants coach banking. Yep. He's a ripper and to having him out here soon. Um, both on the show and for some day with it with our team. I saw him at a NASCAR presentation, was very impressed with his plyometric. Continue. Hmm. What sports you've been doing, you get to do some really interesting stuff there. What have you been? What are the sports and athletes have been tasked with? Yeah. So the model is there that we have those sensa stuff. They have their own sports that they work within. And then those who have trainee's have the training as a mentor mentee relationship. And then you work with that coach to service the the the sports bend's quite a unique case where he's got a wide range of sports. He's got shooting, you know, he had golf, but that is since departed from the various. But from there, he's got some basketball athletes, Talil player table tennis, table tennis, badminton. Yeah, a whole host of things, which for me was very interesting going in. I was looking for the chance to see a lot of different sports and see the requirements that come with those. Um, but it's got to be it's got to be ten plus different sports. It's hard to keep up with sometimes. That's great. And quite a few at the Olympics. You've had got to watch people go over that, which is always really exciting, isn't it? Yeah, that's that's been one of the highlights this year. One of the silver silver linings of Covid was a well-timed sentence internship within an Olympic year. Yeah, because there's something special about being at that institute when it's happening, because that's a buzzer. That's what they're there for. That's what the coaches have spent the years building up for. So very thankful that it's been times that way. Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah. And I'm hitting it hard for takeaways from everything, but that's that's in my nature. What what are the takeaways so far from I suppose I'm interested in talking about the difference between a commercial strength and conditioning involvement like oils Chrissie's and core advantage. Yeah. And and institute level because it is a different. Dynamic like. Yeah, what do you notice that's different? I'm curious about about all that. Yeah, so that's I like to think about it. We talk about it depends a lot you strength conditioning and the context of things. The context of an athlete is almost always the main thing. Right. Second to that is the context that you're working within, whether that's whether you're working in Australia or America. There is a cultural context there that has a place. What are the differences you noticed? The main things is that I noticed atlases, the major sports certainly have an influence over strength and conditioning. When you've got a big sport like NFL throughout the whole country, people start weight training early and they start weight training heavy. When you say early on, from what I understand, it's like their middle school is like 13, 14. The expectation is that you're putting on muscle and size early while still fitting those athletic qualities. And I just think the the major sports have influence over what's taught in the same way that Australia, with football and netball and past Aussie Rules football here has a lot more running and a lot more field open running to it. And I think that plays a lot into the al. Baseline foundational, essence, aid delivery. Well, we get called the fitness staff a lot. Yeah, I don't reckon that we get called the fitness stuff in America would like to be called the strength. If I'm likely just to be called a strength coach. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas we're in a lot of circles, strength and conditioning and I like to be. Yeah. Yeah, that was some of the major influences. Mm hmm. The difference, isn't it? But when you're comparing a private setting to institute this. The context of that being is if you're in a private institute, there's always an element of sales to it. You mean a private a commercial environment? Yes. The the whether you liked it or not, there's there's an element of sales and customer service and customer satisfaction within the business. You you're obviously you want buy in, you want trust, you want a good relationship that doesn't rely on that. But to some extent, that has to play a factor. It's a business at the end of the day. Whereas at an institute system, you're a service provider. And your job is to provide physical preparation, support, supports, training to the best of your abilities in collaboration with coaches and physios. Not to say that's not what we're trying to do here. It's just, you know, there's expectations of the athlete and working with the athlete that are at a slightly different, different vibe, isn't it? Yeah. If your athletes are at an institution, some are expected to turn up. They're expected to do the work that put in front of it, if they enjoy it or not. That's not really. It's not as much of a KPI as it's not as much of a KPI of the staff, it is, of course, important to them. But they are they are results and performance driven. Hmm. But the customer satisfaction and customer service still has its element within a business. Hmm. I am where we're trying to push here. My sort of my utopian ideal for here is where we have this commercial level skill at sales. But it's not about getting. It's not about selling people and joining up. Yeah, we're actually the joining up process is a filter that we're trying to with. We're so busy that we're trying to not take people on. Yeah. But the sales job is actually on doing the non gimmicky, kickass things that make your brain like. I want us to be really good at selling the stuff people really need. Yeah. Rather than just trying to get people through the door that, you know, get people to do the right stuff. Yeah. Because there is a battle for hearts and minds at the moment with dumb stuff. Yeah. Dumb stuff is easier to sell than the good stuff in our industry. It's weird. It's like if we were making cars, it's I was talking to I caught up with Rob Lincoln at one of our founding people at Ghorbanifar today for lunch. And we're talking about how this weird thing where now industry, um, it's like if you were making if had a Mercedes versus a Datsun, which is a really crappy car for those who don't know ArcSight, dozens are old now, are they? I don't know. You don't know what to do. I've heard the name. OK, that's a crappy idea. But anyway, it's really obvious that the Mercedes is the better car. Yeah, but often in in our space, you can have really sexy looking training that is clearly inferior to those that. No, but actually the flaws of that training make it look really good. Yeah. So it's a weed's to its bottler and with that. Yeah, it's funny. I want to talk about another thing before we wrap up, which is one of the reasons that got you through the door in the internship, because you didn't interview. Great. Okay. You were what I what I took from the interview very reserved. And my my fear was that you're clearly smart, but that you might not have the ability to drive that projection as a coach, that you need to actually be a kind of control of room. And at that point in time, the way or Cavender was set up was it was much more Boyle esque, that class setting. And you needed to there was a performance element to being a coach. We need to put on a a performance to that group to control them and move them through. And it was it was more of a it really pumped the energy into the equation. Yeah. Whereas now it's it's not the same. It's a different because it's the adult oriented, athlete driven model. Yeah. And so, yeah, my question mark on on you was, would you be a good fit for delivering that kind of coaching? And happily we've changed that. So now the more we've actually we've changed the model, it's more suitable for your predisposition. But one of the reasons this is a long as question is this is terrible. One of the reasons that I hired you is that we took you on for the internship, rather, not Heidrick. Was your scaffolding background. Yeah, because I have this real bias towards people have worked hard jobs. Yeah. I will almost never hire a person who comes in and I the dogs worked. You know, this easy jobs. I think if you worked in an easy job, then you might think your vantage is hard work. But if you've worked in a job with genuine labor, where you happen to lift things in hot weather, having a hard time, yeah, then it's always going to easy. That was what probably got you over the line. Yeah. And in freezing cold weather and ready to go weather as well. Yeah. Tell us all about the experience. So what what does a gaffer do? How does it all work? Scott, take me to scaffolding school. So scaffolding is obviously what's used in construction to go now outside the building. It's essentially setting up platforms for people to work on, a lot of rendering, painting, any kind of fixture work externally. I was fortunate to have family, friends that own a business in that. And pretty much a week or a few days after I finished my exams in year 12, I started working there. Okay. Just wanted money straight away. Was it good money? It's good money. Good working early morning to mid. You kind of forget like you have the rest of your day. You have your nights. No, socialize it. It didn't always feel like eight hours work. And sometimes you clock up eight hours work, especially if you have to start a little bit later. It can. It controls your whole day sometimes. It was very much you get up and work and you done. I did that for four to five years, a long time while I was in university. A dip back into it a little bit last year and during Covid. Because I was still able to work. Yeah. But yes, I served there was a labor for a long time. Did it do what I think it does? People that make everything else seem easy. Yeah. Yeah, I, I hadn't done any coaching before I came into court manage. Hence, to my surprise, when I was able to get a job here, that is certainly if I had my time again. So Coach Maun Skaff, less Krochmal scandalous. Yeah, I would have done junior sport. I would have done any sort of coaching at that time. I wasn't aware that I wanted to be a coach as much as a university doing exercise science, but I didn't know which path I want to take it. So on sides of it, hindsight's 20/20 on that one, but I do coaching earlier. Is that would be your advice if something when someone says, I've got a younger brother or a younger sister that wants to end this stuff? Or even athletes say to us, I'm thinking that access. What science? I mean, that's great. Go do some coaching. Yeah. Go start working with people, you know, start delivering sessions, seeing different types, personalities, work with kids because it's hard. You know, such a good point. I, um, when I was into my first degree, I didn't have a lot of money and I got a paid gig as a basketball coach. But I've forgotten about until recently because I've just started coaching my daughter's basketball team. And so I did this like 15 years ago. Yeah. And I think that's a bigger I think I've probably under credited that I've over credited the Socratic method. Yeah. And unaccredited coaching a bunch of other 12 year olds, because I just I had like I was coaching from, you know, 1991. I was actually delivering coaching even. I wasn't strengthening in coaching. I was just learning how to do that. Yeah. And maybe it's even better to learn how to coach before you know all the technical stuff. Yeah. Because you just have to get by on coach craft rather than technical craft. Yeah. Whereas I've had to and we've spoken about it. I've had to work on that balance between knowing technical craft and knowing coaching craft to the detriment of the coaching craft. If I'm honest, I picked up the technical stuff really quickly. Yeah. Right in your wheelhouse that the coaching staff has taken more conscious effort. And it's obviously an ongoing learning experience. But the coaching part of coaching is is most essence a coach's weakness? Yes, it's, you know, in getting good at that. Yeah. But fortunately, between working here and being at the is that people like yourself and Ben who mentored me, certainly push that upon me. You hear you hearing it in stereo. Yeah, I know. I get the I get the right advice to work on the coaching. Yeah, but yeah, that to go to your original question, isn't scaffolding laboring made this seem like a breeze? Yeah, I must have mentioned to it early on. I was just I was coming in here working, doing intense hours here a few nights a week. I came in to train on other nights and I was like, it's not it's not even work at all like this. This doesn't feel like it's a fun thing to be tried in the freezing cold. You try lifting tons of steel all day. It was it's been great to scaffolding had its perks, of course, but it seriously made this job feel like a brace. Yeah, I think that's great advice. Think do something hard, but also do something coce. Yeah, pretty early. Yeah. All right. This has been awesome. Thanks for shining a light on all those experiences in the states and and back here. Um, what can people follow you. And so it's coach on Instagram. Yeah, really good. Skoch get around it. There's some good content on that. Yeah. I need to get back into posting more, but you'll see me on the court of social's as well from time to time. Sounds great. And in terms of show notes, what was going? Anything else that we've been through? Probably not. I think we've got to figure out what UCLA. Yes, that's what I said. We'll find you a resource to talk about the Tommy John. That is my bed for not getting that. That is all good. Thanks for joining us. And we'll see you next week. And thanks for coming in so early. Thanks so much. See you later, Jess. Okay. Hope you enjoyed that episode. You'll find all the relevant show notes over at core advantage Ekom a you also on the website, you can find more information about our athletic development services, education, short courses and everything else, or up to that score advantage dot com today, you guys.